5 Levels of Digital Marketing with Brad Hampton

In this episode of the Believe Again podcast, host Josh Roberie interviews Pastor Brad Hampton about church marketing strategies. Brad shares his background in marketing and how he applied those skills to church planting. They discuss the importance of having a clear goal for marketing efforts, such as getting people in the seats or having one-on-one conversations. They also emphasize the need for churches to have a strong digital presence and engage with their audience on social media platforms like TikTok. Brad introduces Visit Planner, a tool that helps churches create digital ads and generate quality leads. They conclude by encouraging pastors to consistently use digital marketing strategies to reach new people and advance the Kingdom of God.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Bleep Again podcast brought to you by Business Planner. I am your host, Josh Rovery, and this season we're hoping to inspire and equip you to relaunch momentum in your ministry. And today it's going to be a great example of how we're able to do that by bringing in my good friend, Dr. Brad Hampton, who started Stoko Church in Bitonville, Arkansas, in January of 2018. It's been one of the fastest growing and most innovative churches in the park. And Brad has not only been a good friend to me, but he has continued to innovate and lead the way in church marketing, creating lots of great strategies and tools for pastors to get the word out about their church. And that's what we're going to talk about today with Brad. And so Brad is here with me in his office in Ventonville. How you doing, Brad? Man, I'm doing great. Thanks for the kind introduction. Well, it's uh you're a legend, and I'm so happy uh to have you doing this with me. So this is the last episode of the season, but the first episode in the new ARK studio. So thankful for ARC for allowing me to uh record in here in this cool space. Yeah, looks good. Well, so it's I mean, I guess better than my TV in the background. So you got you got a beautiful picture of your church there. And uh I just wanted you to know that you're honored to be the first guest in the new ARK studio on the podcast. So you saved the best for last. That's huge. Well, Brad, let's uh jump in here and uh get get to uh some church marketing, uh digital marketing strategies uh to to relaunch uh people's brand awareness in their city. And and I want to do that by just kind of jumping into your story for a little bit. So why don't you tell us a little bit about where does your marketing background come from? Because I think it's a little bit different than uh most most pastors.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Yeah, I knew at an early age God had called me into ministry, but I never really had a path for that. And so when I got into my early 20s, I was in college. A friend of mine was a part of a uh software startup all the way back in 2001. Asked me to come work for him for the summer. Well, the startup exploded, and I ended up staying there for the next uh almost 11 years. So, in that startup, if you've ever been a part of one, everybody kind of wears a lot of hats, very much like planting a church. And we needed somebody to help with marketing. And I'm like, that sounds fun to me. I'll I'll handle it. So I start reading all these books, and you know, we're in the medical profession, so it is very professional and uh clean and all that. And I had just come up with this random idea way back when to try some new things. So we did a full-page ad back in a medical publication, and we did it upside down. I mean, innovative, crazy, an upside down ad. It just blew everyone's mind, right? And uh so just kind of got a start there and was lucky, lucky enough to be trusted to really be the director of uh marketing, eventually director of sales and marketing. And the company blew up and I was there yeah for about 11 years. So as that transitioned, I kept feeling more and more a call to uh ministry, and so left that and went into full-time ministry in my early 30s as a youth pastor when I finally came on full-time at a small church in a small town, then heard about ARC, heard about church planning, had no idea you could plan a church with more than 15 people in a living room. And it just made sense to me. So while everybody else at the ARC training had lots of ministry experience, I did not. I had no idea how to preach, I had no idea how to do most of those things, but I did know how to do what's called maybe guerrilla marketing. But when we planted our church, it all came real natural to me because I'd already done it for 10 or 11 years. Um, so just the kind of innovative thoughts that we had used there, we translated that into planning a church. And um, we were very relational when it came to marketing this medical software and became very relational at marketing uh Soko Church when we moved to Bentonville, Arkansas, and just had unbelievable results that blew my mind. I mean, uh I'll never forget a local pastor who planted a church that's massive here in the area. He said, I know what you're thinking right now, and everything you're thinking is worst case scenario. He said, make a little bit of room for best case scenario. And man, it was in those early days, it was best case scenario. It was really, really exciting. And um, you know, I didn't have a huge following. I think I have, you know, over 300 followers on Instagram at the time. So, I mean, kind of a big deal if you think about it. Uh, nobody knew us. We didn't have a bunch of people that moved to our town, we didn't have like, you know, former relationships that it was all brand new people, and we ended up, you know, with 153 on our launch team and launched with over 600 and four months, four or five months in was Easter, and we had over eleven hundred people for our first Easter, and uh a year and a half in planted a second location. Um, so yeah, those early days were a lot of fun and pretty wild.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Well, I I remember some of those early days before you planted. Um, I was I remember exactly where I was sitting when Jeff Wells, who I cannot believe I'm mentioning him, or someone's mentioning him once again on this podcast because I mentioned more than anyone else. Jeff Wells was he's the man, so he's an early fan of you, and uh he claims that he brought you to ARC. He did. Yeah. Yes. So he came and he told me, and he says, Hey, have you have you checked on uh this guy Brad Hampton in Bentonville, Arkansas? And I mean, I knew your name because you're in our process, but I really couldn't put a face to it. The first thing I thought of, whenever someone tells me, hey, this person is a is a marketing person, I always go to their social media, and nine times out of ten, like you said, they have like 25 followers, and they're gonna give me 10 tips to get a million followers, you know. And I just I just it turns me off right away. And then I went to your church page, and back then, you know, it's very rare for someone to have like a church might have like a over a hundred people following their church page, and you had like I maybe close to 2,000 people, and I was like, whoa, what's going on here? What is he doing? He's doing something different, and I got really interested in what you were doing, and uh, I think that was the first time I scheduled a phone call with you and and to hear what you were doing, and the way that I learned it from you, and it's really influenced so much of like how I've continued to write and and teach marketing and and help our other uh people who teach marketing and promotion advertising is to change things up, is to be more relational, which is really more arcs style anyway. But I think at the time people were really more focused on like, okay, I paid for this ad on Facebook, I got so many likes. Was that a good investment? Yeah, and so if someone's still asking that question today, Brad, how would you answer that question?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah, I think that's a common misunderstanding of spending money in any form of marketing. Um, if you don't have a kind of funnel mentality of what's crossing the finish line for you, what's the ultimate goal? The ultimate goal should never be just to get likes and comments. When I'm looking at my ROI on any money that we're spending on marketing advertisement, it's all about getting people into our building, getting them connected, building a relationship, so on. So my ROI is always based on that. And many times it's uh people just thinking, man, we've got to spend some money here. We got to market our, we got to get the word out. So Facebook's telling me to boost a post, let's do it. And not really knowing what that translates to, or let's just send out a mailer and hope for the best. And then, well, how'd your mailer do? I don't really know. And so we need to go a little deeper when it comes to spending any money, or even not money, organically, even. There needs to be an ultimate goal. So, what is the end goal? And the end goal should be either getting people in the seats, or for me, it was a one-to-one conversation, whether that was DMing people, whether that was an email, whether that was a phone call, a text message, using Calendly to set up a um a coffee. But it was all about like if I could talk to them one-on-one, I felt really confident about getting them in the doors to one of our startup parties, our launch team meetings, or our launch day. And I still feel that way. If I can get one-on-one with somebody, if I can cast vision, um, I feel really good about it. But if it's just me throwing us out there, like, hey, here we are, that's not my ultimate goal. That is the funnel approach to get them to a place where I can have a one-to-one conversation because that's where it's at. And, you know, I'm not maybe the greatest salesperson ever, but you can ask any great salesman, and that is their goal as well. It's not just to throw out things, it's how can I get in front of this person? One-to-one at some level, uh, some way of communicating, one-on-one always helps them hit their goals, right? And so, in the same way of planning a church, I want to have a certain number on my launch team. Well, I've got to do more than just boost a post. I've got to have some level of conversation.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

You know, while you were talking, I was just thinking about uh the different levels of marketing effort somebody can do and the expectations that go along with it. And I think, you know, when people, you know, go to plan a church or they're pastoring a church and they want to they want to get people to show up, you know, I think about uh the different approaches. And some people don't really believe in like marketing or using social media. And to me, that's that's a mistake right off the bat. So that'd be the lowest level of effort because they feel like, oh, just word of mouth. Well, you know, Jesus and Paul went to where the people were, and people are online now, and we live in a digital world. And to ignore that to me is really, really foolish. And so I think like sometimes when I see someone planting or pastoring and I go to their digital presence and there's nothing there. Well, there's like I went to one church's Instagram post the other day, and there's two posts this year. What what would you say to someone in that in that? Because to me, that's got to be the lowest level, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

That is. And post-pandemic, we know that there is a very high level of research before buying. All consumers now, we are now research heavy, we are review heavy, we are looking. Uh, I think it's like 81% of consumers are now research before they buy, and something over 40% of consumers have different shopping methods than they did before COVID now. So we know people have changed their methods, and we have to make sure that if people are researching, that we're putting out the right data for them to research. So I was on a call with a church the other day, and it's a good-sized church. And while we're talking, I was scrolling, I went to the which I always do, I go to your website simply so I can scroll to the bottom and find your social media. I did that, I go to their Instagram link and it's broken. And I'm like, oh man, that is painful. The number of people that you have paid money for SEO, advertisements, whatever, to get them to your website, that was simply a bridge for them to find your live stream or to go to your social media because they want to know if it's active, it's a fly, if if it's alive, and can I see myself there? You know, a picture's worth a thousand words. Well, then we should really be putting the right photos out there. I want photos that don't just show me and my amazing sermon clip. I want to show you the people in our church smiling, kids getting checked in, kids worshiping, people having coffee in a donut, conversation, wearing casual clothing. All this is answering questions for them and a lot of questions. And when people can't find that, we're missing a huge organic way of marketing who we are. And so it's really, really important that you keep fresh content that's answering the question of who is your church.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah, and I would call that the second level, and that's being intentional with your organic feed. And so there's people who are not being intentional. They might post uh an American flag and say happy memorial day or a picture of flowers, happy Mother's Day, and that's just not engaging at all. No, and then you got people, hey, they're being intentional about their organic presence. But I heard a stat the other day that you can expect 10% of your followers to see your feed. Yeah. Because that this is what the social media is a business, and you may not see it that way, but Facebook is seeing it as a business, and their goal is to turn, I know it's it might be hard to understand this, but their goal is to turn every single person that uses it into someone who is paying them money to get their their stuff out there. And so if you're a church and you're like, hey, I don't want to spend money, I just want to be really intentional uh with my feed, you're doing better than some, but you're but you're basically at 10%. What would you say to someone saying, hey, I I want to just be intentional, but I think spending money, which I think there's probably four or five levels, but we'll just I think we're on level two right now. Yeah. What would you say?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Your social media is, I mean, it's dead if it's a waste of your volunteer or staff's time, if you're thinking that your organic social media presence is going to be a billboard or for announcements or whatever else, because the people in your church just are not seeing a lot of that content. You're right. All the algorithms are designed to keep you on the platform. And so if your content is not getting interactions, you know, when when someone likes a post and you get a lot of likes, you're telling the algorithm this is quality material that other people want to see. So if you're posting content that's not adding value to people, and how do we know if it's adding value? Are they interacting with it? It's simply that. I mean, if you're posting something that gets 15 likes, that's telling the algorithm this might be okay for a few of the people that follow because they like this uh this account, but for reaching more people and for getting it out there, if it's not adding value, man, the algorithm's just not going to put you in front of other people, right? I mean, the algorithms are so smart. Um, I'm personally not on a lot of social media, strangely, right now. But um, you know, the way I use TikTok is for research purposes. I don't really use Google anymore. So we just bought a couch. And so we use TikTok to find real people giving me real feedback on what couch to buy. And now that we bought it, guess what my algorithm is still doing? It is putting couches and reviews in front of me left and right, because that was the thing that was adding value to me at that time.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

I like it because I could tell what's coming down the road for everybody else. You get on there, you see somebody posting talking about something, two weeks from now, they're gonna be doing the same thing on Instagram. And so I feel like I can get ahead of it a little bit and know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Can I point out something on that as well, real quick? Obviously, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok are somewhat different audiences. Facebook's a little bit older, Instagram's in that middle range, TikTok's the younger, and there's obviously some crossover. But the thing about so we're we've not really done a lot with TikTok because I just didn't feel like I had the knowledge of what to do yet. But now that I've noticed, even me, um, not just young generation, but they're getting away from Google searches because when you find results, it's tons of ads, or it may not be the content, or it's paid advertisement. Now with TikTok, like we just went to Europe, Josh, and I use TikTok to figure out everything that we did. So I created our entire itinerary, going from Rome to Sorrento back to Paris. All of that was built off of research from TikTok. So what I've learned through that is TikTok should not be a place just for sermon clips or whatever it is. So, what we've decided to do, because we have some pretty strong influencers on TikTok in our church, is think through the perspective of how the platform's already being used. People use it for research. So let's now use it as a way for a person who's new to the area. What are they doing? If they're single, they're looking for things to do. So getting an influencer to come in and do a narration of the video. Hey, I was new to Northwest Arkansas, looking for something to do. Obviously, the first thing I need is community. So I came across Soko Church. And so here was my experience. I showed up, man, they were so friendly. Their coffee bar was awesome, the worship was cool. So they're showing the clips while they're doing that, that's giving people the information they're already looking for. They're looking for something to do, a new family that's new to town, getting that experience, someone who's serving. Uh, I wanted to get involved in a nonprofit in area and make sure that I'm giving some of my time. And man, Soko gave me an easy path to find a way to start serving in the local community and in the church on Sunday and showing their experience. And that is adding value to people because they're already looking for things like that versus just, hey, let's have a really creative reel, or and here's what I've learned about creative reels for churches on TikTok, Josh, is they're influencing other churches, but they're not necessarily influencing the people looking for a church. So all these churches start doing each other the same little idea, but that's not resulting in new people coming into the church because they're not looking for cool or creative, they're looking for information that fits what they're that they're shopping for, if you will. So I know that's a total different topic, but just a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, well, it's interesting, and I totally agree with it. I've learned so much on TikTok, it's in just a short period of time than I've ever learned on any other platform. And I I go there to learn about different cultures, different experiences, yeah, DIY projects.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

No, it's just a funny thing. Well, it used to be, but it's not now. Now it is super, super research driven, and that that's what people use it for. And if you're not, you should try it out. So think about what are people looking for in your community that's related or translates to who you are as a church. And so that's what we're about to roll out because we finally feel like we have a value that we can add to TikTok versus just trying to have the funny creative uh post, like the things someone's already looking for.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

You're highlighting a very a very good point for people using TikTok. Okay, so I think the third level of using social media is you're you're using it, you're using it strategically, and you're paying for it, but you're not really doing the the personal interaction. So you're you might even be spending a thousand dollars a month towards it and feel like, oh, digital ads are not worth it. Um have you ever met someone with that experience? And what would you say to someone who's spending a lot of money but not getting a lot out of it because they're not doing that last piece?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah, they're just spending it incorrectly. They're um, you know, a lot like a mailer. There's there's not a uh a real method for it. It's just uh there's not a plan, a strategic strategic plan. It's just we know we need to do it, so let's do it and let's, you know, there always there's like, well, there's a guy in my church, he knows kind of how to do some of this stuff, and spend the money, and then you don't have any ROI. And so you move on from it. And so many churches have either used someone that um inappropriately spent their money and it just uh it didn't work, or they've tried it themselves and they just haven't had results. And this is the greatest tool as far as getting the word out about our church that that we've ever had in the history of church. I mean, this is it. When I think about how Jesus said, you're gonna do even greater things than me. I don't think he necessarily meant we're gonna do like greater things than the cross, right? But I think he meant we're gonna reach people at a greater way and a greater rate. And so here we are. We have the technology to go do what the disciples and Jesus, you know, couldn't do because they were limited in their travel and so on. And now, man, you can hit a big portion of your population, your community in a week. I mean, it's unbelievable. Uh, it's just a matter of knowing the right methodology, the right tactics, and making sure it's a trusted way that gets you actual results because it it can work.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

So the thing that I learned the most from you, it's a grind, just like everything else is in church planning or pastoring. It's like it's about people, it's not about a turnkey solution that you can just put something towards and just walk away. And when I called you way back when, you know, before you guys launched and was hearing your strategy, I shared it with Amy. And she was like, you know, Josh, that's exactly what these influencers do. We we had moved to Birmingham, and Birmingham has a lot of uh has has a surprisingly influencer culture here because of the the design and art culture that's here in town. And Amy would get these followers, these influencers that were starting out that would that would target her, and they would DM her one message, explain to them how they feel like they can add value to her. And she would respond, they would respond one time, and then she was now a fan because it clicked with her. And I know like that's been my experience as well. It's like if a celebrity interacts. With me one time, it's like boom, I now have a connection to them that's different than every other celebrity. And now I feel a connection to him that I don't have with anybody else because he responded once or twice. And you know, I would love for you to talk about pastors making that shift because to me, getting in the comments, liking people's comments, following them back, it seems to be a foreign concept to some. And then once once you have that, leading them to a visit. Um, how are you helping people do that? And what what's your what's your thoughts on it?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Well, for those especially in the pre-launch phase, or those that are trying to, you know, restart a church, rebrand, whatever, you're gonna have to get back into that or get into the church planner grind. Man, it is it is work, and you're putting in the work now so that once you launch, you're not having to continue to put in those that crazy work. And so I've talked to a lot of church planners and learned that they don't all love the church plant phase. They like post-launch, but that pre-launch is it's hard, and I get it. I love it because I'm an entrepreneur and so it was a blast. I miss it. But my time was spent in trying to have as many of those one-to-one conversations as I could. And so our goal, and it should be everyone's goal, and everything you're doing, every avenue of marketing advertisement should be leading you to that one-to-one conversation. I was DMing people left and right. I was following people, I was following certain hashtags like downtown Bentonville or Bentonville AR, all these that associated with people that locally were in the area. I would look at their little profile if they look normal or look like they were in the area and not, you know, a company or a business or a bot or whatever. I would follow them. And if they follow me back, I would instantly copy and paste a DM with a photo of me and my wife just saying, here's who we are. I would put their name in and personalize it, made sure that I would read it to friends. Does this feel because I bet some of the ones Amy got felt very much like a copy and paste or something automated? We didn't want that. We wanted it all to feel very personal. We wanted them to know if they responded. It was us that was responding back. And I think even in the church now, like big churches, they're not building as big a church as anymore. They're building smaller seats, multi-campus. Why? Because they want to personalize the experience. They don't want people to get lost in the crowd or feel like just a number or whatever. So same for us as we're starting a church. It was all about every DM, every post, every organic or um uh digital ad that we paid for. There was a goal in everything we did is how can this lead, kind of what we talked about earlier, back to that personal conversation. So I was doing that for hours a day, Josh. I mean, I remember we would go on like road trips, or if we're going to art conference before we launched, we went, it was the we went to the one in Vegas. And um I remember just everywhere we're driving, I would have my wife drive so I could just spend more time following people, DMing people, and uh and trying to build that relationship base. Because if you have a big enough number of leads, that's gonna translate. So I wanted to get as many contacts as I could. And it was uh sometimes quantity over quality, but because I had such a great quantity, it finally led to a great quality of people that helped us plan, you know, and it was it was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Well, I guess the the last thing that I want to talk about, and we'll call it the fifth level of uh digital strategy, is is uh a plan your visit tool. And so I remember uh again, you you had helped ARC for years and advised me and helped me in so many ways. And giving your time for free to so many pastors, you would do free Zoom calls of pastors, giving them detailed practical instructions on uh church digital marketing. And it came to a point where it was like, you know, we were asking you, Brad, we need you to develop something that we could just give to people. And I know like you really wanted it to just come from art, but we're like, you're gonna have to do it. And um, your heart was really not to so much create a tool, but if I remember correctly, you were really more wanting to coach a holistic, you know, experience, not just for the church, but for the guests to have a good experience. And that's why I'm such a big fan of you because I know your heart and what your ultimate goal was. And I remember you came to me with this plan uh to have like this coaching experience that you would offer people. You I don't think you called it a coaching thing, but that's what I've interpreted it as. And you also had this plan your visit widget. And I was like, hey Brad, that's it. That's the thing that you need to focus on because that's the practical thing that's gonna help pastors understand that they can get help to get people to their church. Yeah, and um, I take credit for this 100% because you called me and said we're changing our strategy. Yeah, and uh you said we're going with this. So I um so I take credit for all your success you've had so far because of that one conversation, as I should. And uh, but then I guess like a couple years later, you were like, Hey, this tool works great, but now we're realizing, okay, if no one comes to your website to plan the visit, then the tool doesn't isn't effective. And you came with this other strategy now to get people to the and I think because you started with the plan your visit thing up front, I think it kind of changed the way that you you you approach the marketing thing and made it a million times more helpful for churches to actually build relationships and see people uh come to the church. So would love for us to just, you know, we're not wrapping up right now, but our last topic to be you just talk about what you're doing now and how it's helping churches.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Yeah, that that's true. Josh, you have actually been a huge help. Um so I do give you kudos for helping us kind of think through it. What I learned is uh, you know, I have real hard to help churches that don't understand this world. You know, I think most pastors, most churches, they they they come on board, they plant a church, they're already pastoring, they get that side of things. That's not the side I got. Like I I had only spoke a few times to adults in my life when we planted a church. So I needed a lot of help there. But the thing that came natural to me was this idea of marketing and advertising and so on. And most churches don't understand that. So I saw this major gap that I was able for the last six years to just jump in and give a lot of time away and you know, not to pat myself on the back, but it was, I loved it. It was a an area I found time every week to help churches. I still do that. I'm still coaching art plants and so on. But I also learned that what I was giving in an hour webinar or phone call or a coaching call was um not always what people were looking for. Not everybody wanted um information to go do it. Most of them just wanted us to take it off their plate. So I'm giving them an hour of time that really they need weeks and weeks and weeks of coaching. And people are like, you know, could you just do that for us? Could you cover that? Could you help us with our Instagram, our website, all that? And I'm like, no, I pastor at church, I have other businesses, I've got three kids at home, I can't do all that. But people were just looking for um some help. And so we finally decided, okay, instead of trying to just give time away and help people with enough information to be dangerous, what if we just took this and provided a service and software to take this off the plate? And so over the last year or so, we've been um introducing what's called visit planner. We're about to relaunch all that thanks to you as well. But um, right now, for the time's sake, it's called Visit Planner. And we're basically creating digital ads for churches that lead to exactly what I've been talking about, one-to-one conversations, where you're literally on an app getting people that are texting you. I'm interested in coming to your church and I want to talk to somebody. And you now have the opportunity to uh have conversations. Now, there's lots of tools out there, there's some that are free, there's other services. But I what what I think we're really good at is one, we run all this through my church, so everything's being tested and tried. And number two, I think there's a lot of services out there that will get you leads, but they're not getting you quality leads. And so we're getting you quality leads, actual people that you're wanting to reach, people that are gonna help you fund the vision too. That's the other thing. I I think there's a lot of services out there that'll help you find people that need help, that need money, that need food, and that's great, but you shouldn't have to pay for that. That should be something you can freely go find in your community. Uh, what we want to do is help help you fund the vision through getting you good quality people that are looking for your church because they're new to your area or they're just needing a new church to get involved and serve in. And we've had unbelievable results. And it's wild to me, though, how hard it is for people to get their mind around this. So many people see it as something that they want to do, you know, for Easter or for Christmas, and that's it. Even like pre-launch, people will use it up till they launch, and then they're like, okay, well, I guess we can, we're good now. Like, no, you still need a digital marketing methodology. And this is the, you know, obviously I'm a little biased, Josh, but I I I didn't charge a dime for anything until we launched this. And I wanted to launch something that I knew would work, and it works, and it's something you got to stay consistent, and you have a you have a part to play as well. You got to communicate. And in the sales world, they call it nurturing a lead. You've got an opportunity now to nurture a relationship for someone who's already looking for a church, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Well, I've not seen anything work this well in my 10 years. I'll be at be doing this for 10 years in in just uh a couple months. Wow. And I've never seen anything work like this before. And so I've been a big huge fan of letting people know about it. Um, you have sponsored this season because I think this is for people looking to relaunch, this is the greatest tool I think they can get their hands on. I just believe in it, and uh, and that's why I wanted you to sponsor. And I'm very grateful that you sponsored this season so we could do another uh season helping pastors. So thank you so much for doing that. Um, and um I I just hope everyone that's looking to add new people to their church checks out visit planner because I really, really think it's gonna help you out. And it's still you're still an early adopter, you know. It's you're still could be the first church using this in your city, and that is gonna give you increased returns on on doing this.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Yeah, thanks, Josh. Yeah, it's a it's an honor to be a part of it. I believe in you. You've got a great heart for churches and church planners, and thankful that you've been a friend to me. And uh you and Amy are incredible.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Well, thank you, Brad, so much for joining us. I want to go ahead again and mention uh visit planner. If you're looking to double the amount of first-time visitors to your church, you need to go to visitplanner.church. Mention believe again so they know that you heard about them from the Believe Again podcast. And um, we hope you check that out. And I just am so happy that you joined us today. Can't wait for you to be with us next time. Until then, keep leading and believing strong.